Photo credit: Stephen Aldahl
Enough sunlight pours into the one-room gallery space that creates the perfect surrender to the displayed photographs. There is this enigmatic moment, this principle of divine truth without motion, for stillness is exuded. The viewer slows down and there is visibility, there is ease that brings us into this mundanity that serves as poetry. A girl sits by the pool, a mother brushes a child’s hair, a boy looks at us, and our mind empties as we can sink into this oscillation of tasks.
HVW8 gallery’s current exhibition, _Rituals_, is a concise breathtaking selection of images and films from a series of work by Shaniqwa Jarvis & Rajendra Debah. With an earnest complexity that removes the drone and disorder of Melrose Ave, there is quiet.
Debah and Jarvis cascade and land in this work in a way that showcases who they are together in their creative practice. The mention of moments has resonated deeply with me. When we look at life in these verbose ways, we are oftentimes removed. They hone in and usher the viewer into a quiet truth that reminds us of the commonality and connectivity we are always bound to.
They create this rare quality of tenderness in the mundane, the contemplative gestures of home and safety call us to ask and visually architect what that looks and feels like. We are also challenged to surrender to a new narrative that bridges light into the parts that have been shadowed, the parts that do not divide and invite us all to reframe how we see ourselves and those around us.
I look at the photographs and I feel I am there, sitting in sunlight feeling a slight breeze in the posture of care. Silence can radiate so loud, and the qualities of the films and photographs transporting to a positioning of possibility in the removal of noise. To be more than we were, more than how we were seen, to come as we are.
The moments, the vignettes of each film and image melt over me as I assemble the feelings, the parts shown and the parts left out. I am held in each image, captivated by the looming suspension of time, chaos, and concern. In a moment, where everything can be as it is. We can be beautiful in these small moments. I often have meditated on this sentimentality of “home” within the fleeting construction of time and it’s unending hunger to devour. Simplified, home is a feeling that resides wholly within these moments. Held, sustained, we can be present here, in love, in self and in time, not beyond, but radically, authentically, within it.
**I wanted to hear a bit about your background and if you could talk a bit about the inspiration for the exhibition.**
**S:** Hi my name is Shaniqwa Jarvis. I am from New York City and come from two random people who made me. One is from the Caribbean and my mom is American all the way through.
**R:** Hi my name is Raj Debah, the exhibition is using my full government name, which is Rajendra Debah. Born and raised in New York City, grew up in the South Bronx, I was born in Manhattan, but my parents moved to the South Bronx in 1981 when it was on fire and the crack epidemic was in full effect. I grew up very close to a sort of cultural hub and almost the poster child for American poverty.
**As far as the show and your guy’s creative collaborative relationship, could you speak a bit about how it began and what the inspiration for it was?**
**S:** So Raj and I made this piece, called “Cars,” a few years back. That piece was seen by an agency and it fit in with something they wanted to create to sell a product. They came to us and asked, ‘hey can you guys make something for us,’ which is great to not rip us off, but come and ask us to collaborate in that way. We did, and once we realized nothing was going to happen for the work, we were like ‘we already own it we might as well use this work to showcase it in a way that we originally envisioned it to be as a piece of art.’ We showed it at Basel and now at HVW8. This whole week we’ve been hearing people talk about mundane activities or using the word ‘mundane,’ and a lot of this is about these things we think about when you’re dealing with practice or focus or any type of habits that you may have that weave into who you are and your cultural experience. For us, these stories are about black family but it’s also really for anyone because they’re genuine to all of us as humans.
Photo credit: Stephen Aldahl
**There’s this really interesting element in the photographs that I felt of the pace and this ease that created this beautiful quality that I appreciated in the photographs. It reminded me a little bit in a different way some of the themes Larry Sultan explored in his series _Pictures From Home_. Especially with the solace of his parents just standing in this environment and this sentiment was felt also in a much more powerful way in your photographs.**
**S:** Thank you.
**This show is a strong and captivating meditation on the lineage and energy of Black families. There is an innate power in how we connect and how we honor our culture and heritage. When you were working on this series, what were you thinking, reading, feeling prior and during creating the images and the show?**
**R:** I think one of the things that is a constant theme throughout the show was that all the kids take center stage and they’re the spotlight. We made a trilogy of films that stars all of the young children as part of these families. That was an interesting concept for us, because we wanted it to be fun and play with this idea of fun. We decided, ‘let’s tackle this idea of reflection and dedication and family.’ That was sort of the creative that we wrote for the piece when we started working out what we wanted to do with each story. We always knew it wasn’t going to be any sort of narrative or any kind of Q&A thing, it was just going to be more of an emotive video and images.
**S:** It’s not as linear. These are literally just moments, we’re letting you peek into these moments because generally when you see us (and when I say ‘us’ I generally mean people of color), you’re not seeing these moments in a positive way. There’s always trauma attached to it. A woman braiding hair, a girl walks out and gets shot or punched in her face. This is legitimately celebrating the things that make us normal, and it’s not about superpower. It’s about excellence without it all having to be about magical and mystical—without using those adjectives.
**There is definitely this beautiful mundane power in the poetry of it, but there’s also almost this space when I’m looking at all of the works that is removed from all the excess noise, providing this visual landscape for the viewer is powerful.**
**R:** We definitely didn’t want to be too nebulous with how we put it out. We wanted to turn the camera onto the mundane acts of the everyday and see the dedication, the love, the support of the community around you, your family tree, and how it all interacts.
Photo Credit: Shaniqwa Jarvis
**Just now I thought of another context as I was looking at the images. Thinking more about portraiture, I was reminded of Malik Sidibe, as well as Seydou Keïta from Mali, and I saw his show in Amsterdam. I was interested to hear both your perspectives on this body of work within the lineage of this type of portraiture, and that type of representation that creates space in this way.**
**S:** I think those other two photographers were capturing moments that are happening within their towns, whether at the parties, documenting their people, whatever is closest to their heart, their vibe, their fashion, or style. I feel like the same thing was happening here, because for us, these things are personal. Raj had a very close relationship with his grandmother growing up. All the different things we put into it, we put ourselves into it. I think the similarities are literally because it is coming from a positive place and not a show-off place—just showing how we grew up, and I’m sure somebody else did, too.
**Where do you draw inspiration from?**
**S:** I think it’s a combination of music, travel, and silence. Friends, community, and people around us. For instance, we don’t live in LA, we live in Jersey City, and it is always interesting to come out to Los Angeles. We have roots here, we have friends that we’ve known for 20 plus years. We’ve lived here and when we come out here, it is always inspiring to get to this place that's so industrious. There’s so many people around doing things. I think there are times I can draw from that, but one of the things people always ask me is, ‘Why the hell do you live in Jersey City? Why don’t you move to LA or Brooklyn?’ I think there’s something about us and isolation and quiet. Where we live, we have a studio that’s a mile away. That’s typically where I find inspiration, which is in all these little settings.
**There’s something really powerful to be said for letting different cities or contexts or environments serve you and not overrule you. I just moved to LA and am trying to find my balance. What is your process both together or individually as creatives?**
**S:** My process I think begins and ends in the same place: in my head. We can be talking about something and then sometimes an idea just comes to me—sometimes it’s forced through meditation, or through a conversation or trip. Raj and I are fortunate that we can travel a couple of times of year, not for work, but just to go someplace. We are in those spaces to formulate new ideas, be it with one another, or to be better in our practice. Going back to being an athlete, I think I have always been super competitive and a quiet competitor in that I watch, figure out my strategy, and just go for it.
Photo credit: Stephen Aldahl
**When do you feel the strongest?**
**R:** When I’m holding my wife’s hand. I feel the utmost strength and positivity. That’s true, that’s real talk. I think you asked about how we collaborate?
**S:** Oh yeah, we didn’t talk about that.
**R:** I think that’s an interesting one because we are still sort of figuring it out
**How do your individual practices breathe within that collaboration?**
**R:** A lot of that comes from, as Shaniqwa said, conversation. We are both good at taking all these introverted feelings and experiences, putting a mirror on it, and reflecting it back out to the world. We were talking about how we wanted to keep the imagery positive for _Rituals_. When we started writing it, I was working as an editor on a documentary film about this cultural black icon of the’ 60s who was kind of underground. It was called _Mr. Soul_, and I was showing her rough cuts of it, and the first she said to me was, ‘Why do we always have to see black people getting chased by dogs or getting beaten by police?’ We see it and we become so desensitized to it that we’re just letting it go and letting it slide. When no one’s questioning, it just continues to feed into stereotypical ideas and feeds into our mentality and how we see the world. We did this project around 2018, so for it to come out now is really nice to see.
**S:** It’s great. I find it very hard to do because I am used to doing things on my own. Even though I have siblings, I grew up as an only child, so I have a lot of “only child energy.” A part of me growing as an artist, as a friend, and as a supporter of others, it’s been best for me to collaborate with people—I just like to get it done.
**R:** We go off and have our own passions and things we want to make. We support each other but maybe not have an attachment to it.
**That’s a beautiful symbiotic kind of momentum.**
**S:** We also scream at each other because we both want to get things across. I hate when I read interviews and couples are like, ‘Yeah, we never fight,’ and I’m thinking, ‘You should be fighting, maybe that product would’ve been better if you had some fire!’
**R:** Real love included fights.
**S:** Thin line between love and hate
**R:** Tough love. It works. It’s helpful for everyone.
Photo Credit: Shaniqwa Jarvis
**I believe artworks are worlds that reflect and permeate our various realities and come to heal and offer truth. What position do you cultivate and assume as an artist the content and messages you create? (In the sense of, is there a specific linear driving force and message that is the inertia for why you create?)**
**R:** I think for me, I am still trying to find my voice. I’m first-generation American, my family came from South America and migrated here in the ‘70s. I’ve grown up with a very distorted view of American life, and I think now the picture is becoming clearer. Especially with anything I make, I definitely now take more time to think about the things I want to make, how I want to work and with which people.
**S:** I recently saw this talk that Carrie Mae Weems did—she is one of the people who I looked to as a beacon of light when I first went to art school. Who are you going to follow and what are you going to do? And I really loved her story and how she decided to move and make the work that she did. She recently said to a bunch of people, ‘We’re all just taking too many photographs.’ I’ve been saying that to people as well because it’s as if we’re overdoing it or over capturing.
**Was she speaking in the context of this social media generation or broadly?**
**S:** She was just speaking generally, even as an artist. William Eggleston is also one of my favorites, and I remember one of the first times I heard him speak in a documentary, he was taking a photo. He took the photo and he was like, ‘Okay that’s it, one and done.’ I’ve been thinking a lot about how much of my energy I’m putting out into the world by constantly putting photos into people’s faces. When I think about being conscious about that, it’s also that sustainability talk within art—we’re all outputting so much to keep up with people who are buying your work or one another that my responsibility is to do what I’m supposed to do—not to compete with anyone.
**I was reading a parallel concept in regards to photos in this modern-day context of “over-saturation,” and our eyes needing to be able to rest so we can actually see and enjoy the visual decadence. Creating space to rest our eyes was such a different concept and conversation I hadn’t been having.**
**S:** Yeah, I love that the recent Italian Vogue, they did the entire issue with illustrations and paintings. I was thinking, this is amazing, this is beautiful, and this is great. When I was working in magazines, illustrations were big and we were hiring for every other story. Now it is photograph after photograph of the same thing over and over. How many photos can we have? It’s just nice to work on something like this where I’m not showing the full body of work here in this space. It’s nice to show this very sweet curated selection of work and not have it feel too overwhelming.
**It’s a nice balance.**
**R:** That was the one thing I thought that was important too when we were talking about showing; we have a lot of images because we shot over a period of time. We didn’t want to plaster the walls in a salon-style.
**S:** We thought about it for sure.
**R:** Yeah, but then as you start to lay it out and look at it, it is kind of that ‘less-is-more’ thing. You can look at an image and it can be so powerful, you don’t need to be distracted by 100,000 others. You just want to sit with that one for a little bit.
**S:** And re-telling the same story, like how things get distorted in the game, Telephone. I think that’s what’s beautiful about this project: it did start from that conversation Raj and I had when we were looking at this work. What about the people who were fighting against the oppression but not like the dog photo, not the firehouse photo, what about the people who are having salons in their house, or the people who were sitting out on their stoop talking to people? There are other ways of interacting with our culture and I think whenever I look at the work I see it as another conversation about us told in a different way.
**R:** A lot of it for us and I’m sure for a lot of other artists especially ones of color who are starting to see more notoriety in their work, is taking back that narrative and then spitting it back out in a remixed version.
Photo Credit: Shaniqwa Jarvis
**It feels like this renaissance of reclaiming and rewriting, it is really beautiful to witness.**
**R:** Absolutely, and I think it’s going to be good. There’s an abundance of stuff that is out there and will hopefully make its way into a gallery space or into one of the bigger art institutions so people can experience it in the same way.
**What advice do you have for young creatives?**
**R:** You’re better at the advice, mine is ‘keep going, good luck.’
**S:** Straight up, good luck. I think my advice to young creatives is to know your worth. Take the time to figure out what your true costs are, don’t think they’re the same as mine or the same as Carrie Mae Weems’. Really take time to figure out what you’re trying to put out into the world. Also just do everything. Eat everything. Be everything. Fuck everything. And do it in silence. I don’t need to know about it, your friend doesn’t need to know about it, Twitter doesn’t need to know about it. Process in person. Do all the things, kill all the things, smash all the things, but move in silence and let your work speak for itself.
**R:** I’m about to be 42, and I think that the journey of life takes you to places you don’t expect to go, so go on the journey and let life take you there.
**What’s next for you?**
**S:** What we have next is just a load of smashing shit, just killing it. That’s what’s next. Great things.
**I noticed you are both wearing a brand called Awake?**
**S:** Yeah, it's our friend’s label! That’s another thing: support your people, support your community. At the end of the day, that’s all you have.
**R:** I’m big on that. Our friend who is making this brand has been in the game for 20 years himself, I like to see that longevity and I do what I can to support.
**I forgot to ask, Kelsey Lu scored your films. What was that process like working with her?**
**R:** Incredible.
**S:** She’s rad. She’s a friend of ours, and when we took the project back we were like, ‘Okay what new thing can we add?’ We were having conversations with a few different people and Lu was just like ‘Okay, I’ll do it, I want to do it.’ She wrote back this beautiful email expressing how and why the films resonated with her, how personal they felt to her, and what she felt about it. She was so down. She did a great job, she gave us three beautiful pieces.
**R:** When you work with someone who is a real artist like that, there’s definitely something more extraordinary about the whole thing.
**Alignment.**
**R:** Absolutely.
**S:** We are so fortunate. Speaking of community, we also asked our friends Chris Gibbs and Beth Birkett of Union to help us with our merch. When we did it in Miami, we had Jerry Lorenzo make us tees, and for this one, Chris and Beth helped us make our sweatshirts and t-shirts that will be for sale, which is great to have that support in that way.
**R:** They are a staple in the city and it was to tie that into a show here in LA.
